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MAAC tourney bids
The MAAC announced today that four cities (and venues) submitted bids to host the men's and women's basketball tournaments in 2012-14. Two (Albany and Brigeport) are home courts of MAAC teams. Two (Springfield, Mass. and Newark) are neutral sites. Neither are among the "destination" sites that had been tossed around in discussions over the past year, meaning neither Mohegan Sun nor Atlantic City submitted a bid.
There was, as I wrote last winter, a lot of support for a destination site, and Mohegan Sun would have been the most likely option. But Paul Munick and Co. opted not to submit a bid, leaving the MassMutual Center in Springfield -- in the birthplace of basketball and 15 miles from my hometown of South Hadley -- and the Prudential Center in Newark were the only neutral sites that did.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. As we've discussed before, Albany offers by far the biggest potential for attendance.
The folks at Fairfield have argued Bridgeport has similar appeal and easier access for fans throughout the league.
Newark has the benefit of being a PATH ride away from Manhattan, but none of the ADs I talked to last winter thought it would be a great option. Springfield is the one that surprises me. Aside from the Basketball Hall of Fame, there isn't a whole lot going on.
How does everyone think it will turn out?
There was, as I wrote last winter, a lot of support for a destination site, and Mohegan Sun would have been the most likely option. But Paul Munick and Co. opted not to submit a bid, leaving the MassMutual Center in Springfield -- in the birthplace of basketball and 15 miles from my hometown of South Hadley -- and the Prudential Center in Newark were the only neutral sites that did.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. As we've discussed before, Albany offers by far the biggest potential for attendance.
The folks at Fairfield have argued Bridgeport has similar appeal and easier access for fans throughout the league.
Newark has the benefit of being a PATH ride away from Manhattan, but none of the ADs I talked to last winter thought it would be a great option. Springfield is the one that surprises me. Aside from the Basketball Hall of Fame, there isn't a whole lot going on.
How does everyone think it will turn out?
posted by Ben Doody at
5:09 PM
19 Comments:
I have no problem with the tournament being in Albany. They have done a nice job of making the tournament into an event. The idea that Siena is going to run away with the conference in the near future (basketball-wise), and that the tournament being in Albany gives them an unfair advantage, is mostly from the lunatic-fringe of Siena fans on message boards.
AHY or Newark I hope
Firstly, Springfield should in no way host this event, there is not a MAAC team in that city or state.
I have long proposed a somewhat radical, but potentially great, idea.
We all want the MAAC to be seen on the same level as the MVC, the CAA, Horizon, and other upper-level mid majors, and it should be.
Well, one step towards achieving that is hosting the conference tournament in Madison Square Garden. that's right, I said it.
Geographically, it is centrally located. Iona and Manhattan fans can hop on the subway, it's an hour or so by train from Rider, and less than that from St. Peter's. Poughkeepsie is just as far from Albany as NYC, so there's no difference there. Same thing goes for Fairfield. It would be quick 2-3 hour train or car ride for siena, alot closer for loyola, only Niagara and Canisius would have a longer trip.
Further, I believe attendance would be great because, as I pointed out, fans of 80% of the MAAC schools are no more than 2-3 hours away, and many would be enticed to come not only for the tournament but also to visit the city for a few days. I mean let's face it, Albany aint a tourist attraction.
Fans of Rider and St. Pete's who might think albany is too far a drive would flock to MSG, especially since it sits right above Penn station where NJ transit comes in.They could take a train back home after the games are over for the night. Iona and Manhattan fans would be a 20 minute train ride away, you don't think a whole bunch of them would come? And for Marist and Fairfield, it's an easy 1 hour train ride, or they could drive.
Further, the buzz this would get would be amazing. MAAC tournament games would get huge coverage in the NYC papers, it would get huge buzz in the national media too, that MSG is hosting another conference tournament.
Let's get this done!
MSG as great as it sounds and laid out a decent arguement, has one detail the MAAC might struggle with.....COST. The amount it would cost to "rent" MSG for 4 days, not 5 as I would think the women's tourney wouldn't run simultaneously, would be astronomical. Meaning the ticket prices would go up significantly from the decent levels they are at now.
I hate to admit it but I guess Albany is where the tourney will stay, and I have to disagree with tmd39 though. Even if Siena slips a little from the level they are at now, history shows that when the tourney is in that building they have a VERY distinct advantage.
Shocked that the Mohegan Sun didn't bid. That would have been a great locale, offered things to do during down times, etc.
Yes, you are right one problem would be the women's tournament, since no on comes out to that, no matter where it is. would it be possible to hold it in a different location, like say still in albany or Bridgeport or some such place? I wonder
Hate to say it, but Springfield might be the best of these options. Here's why:
1) Springfield has superb infrastructure, and can accommodate MAAC tournament--The newly renovated MassMutual Center hosted Div. II Basketball championships from 1980-1994, and 2007-present. Ave. championship game attendance over past two years is 5,000. Plenty of hotels along riverfront and in downtown Springfield. Can't be the ease of access--Spfld, "the crossroads of New England" is located at the intersection of Interstates 90 and 91. Great restaurants.
2) Spfld has a rich basketball tradition--The birthplace of basketball, Basketball Hall of Fame, hometown of Travis Best, Derek Kellogg, and Jim Calhoun's alma mater. The city lies but 5 miles from the Connecticut state line--the center of the women's basketball universe. Nutmeggers will flock to downtown Springfield for a good Sienna Lady Saints-Marist Foxy Red Ladies battle.
3) Spfld has a D-League team.
Here's why the other bidding cities won't work:
1) Albany is not even close to being a neutral cite. Everybody knows that Sienna darn near packs the Times Union Center just about every night. Huge advantage = unfair.
2) Newark is too big a city. The MAAC Championship should be the biggest show in town during its championship week. The folks in Newark are more far interested in the Nets, Devils, Pirates, Titans, and CERCLA than they are in MAAC bball.
3) Bridgeport may be the scariest place in New England.
For the aforementioned reasons, the MAAC Championships should be located in Springfield, Massachusetts, the "Cradle of Basketball."
What, does this guy work for the Springfield Chamber of commerce or something? The fact they have a d-league team and Jim Calhoun was born there has absolutely no bearing on whether the locals will come out for a St. Pete's-Canisius Friday afternoon tilt.
It is inconvenient for virtually every MAAC team to get there, other than Fairfield. And as I mentioned earlier, no MAAC team is even in that city or state? Why would the locals care that this conference tourney is being held there?
If we can't do my awesome, innovative idea of holding it in MSG, just keep it in Albany. I hate siena, but at least the arena gets packed for the tournament there.
Springfield is a joke and so is anyone making the case for it. It's like putting the CAA Tournament in Syracuse.
The MAAC would be crazy to award a 3 year contract to a venue that’s never hosted the event. With no host team within 50 miles the venue is outside the MAAC footprint. With no local MAAC team the event would receive very little local attention in Springfield area. The area just doesn’t support mid major basketball. Not sure what the big deal is about hosting in Albany- it wasn’t a problem until last two years. Of course Siena was the best team the last two years anyway earning the number 1 seed both years. If you are worried about competitive balance just award the event to the #1 seed. Let’s face it; Siena is the only program in the MAAC that consistently draws a substantial amount of fans. If you want to have a all in location MAAC tournament you have to take Siena fans into consideration – they account for about 40% of the MAAC total regular season attendance Either keep the tournament in Albany or just award the tournament to the team with the highest seed
The real question is why is Ensor pushing to award the contract to a single site for 3 years. What was wrong with rotating the site with every other year in Albany?
Springfield (MassMutual Center) made a pretty strong push for the A-10 tournament before Atlantic City prevailed. Word is the Springfield bid was pretty strong, and so it makes sense they are now trying to get the MAAC tourney. While there is no MAAC team in the state, the MassMutual Center is probably right-sized (approx 6000) for a mid-major tournament.
I've always thought that Atlantic City would be good because it is close to the "geographic center" of the MAAC. However, once the A-10 re-upped for three years, AC was out of the question.
The A-10 made a risky move by picking a non-A10 city to host their tournament. The move from Cincinnati and Philly to AC has been successful for the conference. Sometimes you have to take a risk. Springfield would not be a bad pick in my opinion.
Unless they rotate it where each school gets to host the tournament, it really isn't fair for all the teams to have to play at Siena each year. Having said that, I assume Albany will get the tourney again.
Where do you suppose the Springfield will get 6,000 fans specifically if Siena isn’t in the finals? I can tell you from 1st hand experience. Two years ago Rider had less than 1,000 fans ( and considering what Rider avg per game that was a great turnout) and maybe Niagara had 1000 fans last year. Without a local host team- any final that doesn’t have Siena in it, would struggle to get 2,000 for the finals. And even with Siena you’re probably looking at a final with three thousand tops
Don’t compare the A10 to the MAAC- most of the programs in the A10 have very strong fan support. The A10 has 10 programs that avg over 4K in fans and 6 that avg over 6K … the MAAC has five programs that avg less than 2K per game and only Siena ( 7k) that avg over 3K per game.
As much as people don't want me to compare conferences, it is surprising how much a city can influence attendance.
Atlantic City has done a tremendous job of marketing the event year-round. AC has been committed to attendance.
A city like Springfield would probably be just as enthusiastic and willing to promote the tournament to get the attendance numbers up. I would imagine that Springfield is large enough to be able to adequately host a tourney (infrastructure-wise), but small enough to actually care about holding a tournament. The City of Newark would definitely not put much energy to promote.
Albany's great but in the off-chance that Siena gets booted early, will there be anyone in the stands?
But I think this is all meaningless chatter because it will be Albany's TUC that gets it in 2012-14.
AC has not been a roaring success for the A10. Avg attendance per session last year was about 4,000 - less than the what the MAAC tournament had per session at the TUC
the anonymous poster who was using attendance figures as some measure of fan support was being deceptive and misleading, or just plain didn't do any research.
Do you know why siena is the only MAAC school that averages over 3k fans. BECAUSE EVERY OTHER SCHOOL'S FACILITY SEATS BETWEEN 1,500-3,000 PEOPLE.
If every team's arena has a capacity between 2-3k people(Rider doesn't even have that) than guess what? They're all going to average less than 3k. You make it seem like MAAC schools have 10k capacity arenas and are only filling 2k of that.
Obviously A10 schools will average more fans, their arenas are much bigger! How do you expect, Canisius for example, with a home arena capacity of 2,100, or Manhattan with 2,300 to average more than 3k fans per game? Are the extra people going to sit on the roof?
Bryan:
That's a decent point about gym capacity around the MAAC, but it rings a bit hollow, for two reasons:
1) It's not like most teams in the MAAC are selling out their home games. Sure the gyms are small, but they aren't full either.
2) More to the point, the gyms are that size for a reason --- not many fans want to go to the games. If there was overwhelming demand (say 7k) for tickets around the MAAC, you better believe the schools would be building new facilities.
Sure, Siena has a bigger arena. But Siena also consistently sold-out their old 3800 capacity gym to standing-room only crowds in the late 80's, which triggered the shift to the downtown arena. They immediately began to draw 6k downtown, even though tickets were more expensive and the arena was far from campus. There was obviously demand that could not be met in the old gym.
If you can show that other MAAC teams have sell-out problems, you might have a point. But the idea that most of the MAAC would have higher attendance if they just got bigger arenas is not true.
Matt,
I agree, having gone to a MAAC school I understand the arenas are small because that's the kind of attendance those programs will support. I was just disputing using attendance figures solely as some barometer of fan passion; and the poster being misleading in that he stated the avg attendance, but not the capacity of the arenas.
Also, most MAAC schools are small, around 5k undergrads. That's another reason why their attendance is small.
Bryan:
Yes. I think we agree. Clearly the absolute attendance figures are not a great way to compare MAAC schools against other in regard to fan passion. Good point.
Unless the MAAC reverts to a 1# seed getting the tourny then you'll always have a greater risk of poor numbers in the finals if you pick a site with less than an enthusiastic fan home base. TUC and Siena fan support provide the greatest risk-reward out there. Don't mess with success.
As for Madison Square Garden, the earlier comment is correct...too expensive any way you slice it. (The (Big East would never allow it anyway). Until the member schools each commit to selling 50-60% of any arena's seating capacity and the venue itself commits to guaranteeing the sale of 10-20% of capacity...leave the Tournament where it is.
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