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Fourth time a charm at Flats?
Coatesville officials have in their hands copies of Iacobucci's proposal for the Flats, and City Manager Harry Walker sounds excited:
“I think the public will believe it is better than anything else we have on the table,” he said, adding “It’s what the city has been waiting for.”(Update: link should work now.)
Labels: Flats, Harry Walker
posted by Daily Local at
9:07 AM
36 Comments:
The link to the full article does not work. Anyone know what the proposal is?
I'm sure it will come out in next monday's city council meeting if not sooner!
It's on the second page of the DLN today. Except Walker won't release the details until Iacobucci makes a "formal" presentation to the RDA. If I understand, this is the same Iacobucci that still hasn't built any homes at Brandywine View. Now they are contending that the redevelopment of the Flats will move that project along as it would, no doubt, make Coatesville a better place to live.
Anyone remember Professor Harold Hill from the movie "The Music Man"? It seems Bart Blatstein, Randy White and Chetty all wanted to play him in the Coatesville remake but now the nod is certainly going to have to go to Iacobucci.
As much as I hate the whole power plant idea, one thing that it's doing is forcing developers (Chetty, Iacobucci, Pulver) to $hit or get off the pot. They know if that power plant goes in, that they will never be able to sell any condos, homes, etc.) that they are "proposing" to build.
Its what the public wants? I want restaurants, a coffee shop and a bass pro shop in town. Also, an IHOP would be great. Maybe a nice Irish pub. And another crazy idea, a grocery store. I am tired of driving to Exton, West Chester, Kennett etc to spend all my money. Hopefully Coatesville will soon realize that there are a lot of wealthy people surrounding the city who will spend their money in the city if you give them a reason too.
Ryan Smith
East Fallowfield
Caln has giant and acme a kohls applebees ace hardware and parkesburg has walmart and homedepot maybe you have not found these towns yet but much closer then exton and kennet. OMG
Thats great. But neither the Giant, Acme nor the Walmart have a larege enough selection of organic goods. So I go to Wegmans in Downingtown. Still, a nice grocery store on the western end of town would do very well.
Applebees food stinks. We could put 5 restaurants in and they would all do fine.
The Ace hardware is a great store. Kohls is ok for some things, but the city could use more shopping.
My main point was that Coatesville should be building these things to attract the suburban money, not Parkesburg or Caln.
Ryan Smith
East Fallowfield
I agree completely with the last poster. I don't go to Giant, rarely go to Acme. I do most shopping at Wegmans. Applebees food is no good. Just about all of my money is spent in Exton, Downingtown, or KoP (which is close to work). Some decent restruarants & shopping should do well in this area.
Ryan,
At one time, Coatesville had three grocery stores and at least one meat market in the City limits. They left. Why? Because you would need an armed guard to stop the shoplifting and they weren't profitable. I really appreciate that you like organic veggies. With the cost of gasoline, I would grow them myself if I were you.
Second, Coatesville doesn't build an Applebee's or a Home Depot or a Bass Pro Shop (that emporium of high fashion camo... and you can also get your stink bait there!). The opening of those and other retail are determined by the corporations and the probable economic prospects of success and, many times, tax or other incentives offered by the municipalities.
So until Coatesville finds itself in a position to "give away" the property or has money from heaven drop on it for that purpose, or (even less likely) they can show a restaurant chain that Coatesville residents have the money and will eat more than pizza, fried chicken, burritos or some other fast food, they can't really offer more to the highest bidder than a polluted spot by a creek under a railroad bridge across from a shuttered open hearth. I'm sure the Bass Pro Shop boys wouldn't mind another store in the heart of hunting and fishing country but the one I visit in Kodak, TN and the one in Orlando, FL both have better views and wildly better demographics. Also, they sell guns, knives, bows and killing objects which may not be the best thing to offer in Coatesville, unless that might encourage the gang members to take up deer hunting and they would all move to Potter County.
Well, if thats the case, then I guess I will have to spend my $250/week on groceries in Downingtown and I will continue to entertain at either my home or in West Chester/Exton/Kennett area. To bad for Coatesville, because there are a lot of middle to upper class people 5 mins outside the city with lots of money to spend.
Ryan Smith
East Fallowfield
There was a nice sized grocery store not far out of the coatesville city limits, Charlie's, but they could not make ends meet after Walmart opened their grocery section at 10 & 30.
Any big retailer will do a study of the area and people before they move into a new spot. Certain types of stores will not find the flats to be the "right fit" for their operation.
Anyone know why Mittal steel changed the name on their sign? did they sell out (again?)
To 11:27 a.m.
Mittal and Arcelor merged in the summer of 2006. I guess they are just getting around to changing the sign.
Ryan,
You are absolutely right about there being money just outside the City limits. I grew up on Robin Rd, just over the line. Went to East Fallowfield Elementary, South Brandywine JH and graduated CASH and moved away to go to college. My wife and I returned for a visit just two years ago and toured some gorgeous homes off West Chester Rd. on the old Chester Valley swim club property. They were priced in the $400,000 range, something we could afford. However, we looked at the city and the area in general and said, where would be go to 1)see a movie 2) have a nice meal 3) have a "happy hour" type meeting place 4) shop or anything else that we can do in a myriad of places for the same price. So people undoubtedly bought there but maybe didn't worry about those amenities when they made their decision. I think most were buying based on the Thorndale train station's proximity.
Sure it would be lovely to see some of those things come to Coatesville. But most people's impression right now is that of a City ravaged by urban blight with very little worthy housing. That usually is the time that developers sweep in and displace the poor, remaining residents, buying them out to build fancier townhomes or condos and the retail that you and I would love to have follows the wealth that those folks bring. But the economy is no longer running on the promise of what can be built. So Coatesville will have to wait for the next big economic boom for it's resurgence.
Ask yourself this question: If you were given a Starbucks franchise, where would you put it? If you said at the corner of First and Main, I would suggest that you were crazy! Would all those wealthy folks drive into Coatesville to buy your coffee? Or maybe a McDonalds franchise. Would you drive into Coatesville to buy a BigMac and then retreat to the relative safety of East Fallowfield?
As much as anyone, I would love to see the rebirth of Coatesville but I see nothing ahead for the City currently but morning sickness and labor pains!
John Bernard
St. Petersburg, FL
John,
I don't disagree with your assessment. But it has to start somewhere. The reality is that we are moving to Devon in June anyway, so any development won't affect us. Would have been nice to stay, but as you say, Coatesville has nothing to keep us here.
Ryan Smith
East Fallowfield
Well I have to say I moved here five years ago with the excitment that Coatesville was the next up and coming town. I did buy right in the city and actually do have money and soap. With all that has NOT happened here and seeing what is NOT going to happen here. I finally decided last week to put my house on the market. I have put alot of $ into my house unlike alot of folks in Coatesville. I try to figure out how there are such nice cars on my street but the houses are falling in on themselves. I decided to take my dogs for a walk through the city last week. Up Chestnut and down the alleys has anyone taken alook at the back yards in this town? I have never seen so much trash and garages and houses that are falling down. I just hope it sells fast. I too am tired of driving to Thorndale to that horrible crowded Giant. The day I do leave Coatesville will be my last day that I will every be in this city, best of luck to all that live there. Look me up if you are every in New England.
I've been complaining about the trash all around the city for a couple of years, no one seems to care, and the back yards, etc. that can be blamed on the slumlords that don't clean up and don't make their sloppy tenants clean up either! There is no pride anymore about living in clean surroundings. too bad.
Ryan,
At one time, Coatesville had three grocery stores and at least one meat market in the City limits. They left. Why? Because you would need an armed guard to stop the shoplifting and they weren't profitable. I really appreciate that you like organic veggies. With the cost of gasoline, I would grow them myself if I were you.
Second, Coatesville doesn't build an Applebee's or a Home Depot or a Bass Pro Shop (that emporium of high fashion camo... and you can also get your stink bait there!). The opening of those and other retail are determined by the corporations and the probable economic prospects of success and, many times, tax or other incentives offered by the municipalities.
So until Coatesville finds itself in a position to "give away" the property or has money from heaven drop on it for that purpose, or (even less likely) they can show a restaurant chain that Coatesville residents have the money and will eat more than pizza, fried chicken, burritos or some other fast food, they can't really offer more to the highest bidder than a polluted spot by a creek under a railroad bridge across from a shuttered open hearth. I'm sure the Bass Pro Shop boys wouldn't mind another store in the heart of hunting and fishing country but the one I visit in Kodak, TN and the one in Orlando, FL both have better views and wildly better demographics. Also, they sell guns, knives, bows and killing objects which may not be the best thing to offer in Coatesville, unless that might encourage the gang members to take up deer hunting and they would all move to Potter County.
Here people is the main problem with Coatesville. See you have to look ahead not now or next year. It is idiots like you who dam Coatesville. So give base pro or cabellas the land and insentives. once they are built others come to feed off the profits. The problem with all these plans is they all are relying on people moving in. Hello it will not happen you need to build busnisses first then retail then at the end come a higher class of people. you think like the board get money now but every short sighted idea always fails after 5 years.
To 1:10pm:
No disrespect to your understanding of economics but....if Coatesville gives "base pro or cabellas the land" (you guys sure love your outdoor shops, don't you!) then they won't get any money to pay the $7.5 million loan that is due from the RDA's purchasing the land to begin with. That is why the bids from the two power companies and now Iacobucci and McNeil are being considered. The money is needed to pay off the debt.
And, far from being an idiot, I am educated enough (Coatesville school system and post-secondary degrees) to understand the problems that face Coatesville are not caused by folks who "dam" Coatesville. They are caused by many of the folks who live in Coatesville. The criminals, the drug dealers, the children born to unwed mothers, the men who impregnate them but assume little financial or moral obligation thus allowing them to grow up with no guidance and repeat the process, the gang activity, the incompetent administration, the council members with no experience and agendas to protect only their peeps, the slumlords, the folks too lazy to walk three feet to the receptacle to dispose of their trash in public places, the ones who see the yards of their rented homes to be there for storage of junk, trash or some other mess and the general malaise of the City. They are the ones who have given Coatesville it's current reputation as the "dumping ground" for Chester County.
You need only read the previous posts to understand the reasons that middle-class people leave! And as they leave, their spots will be filled by more of the flotsam and jetsam that I reference above.
If you think that an opinion posted here "dam"ing Coatesville is the "main" problem, then you, sir, are the idiot!
LOL you make my argument just like the board be dammed with revitalization we need money now. there are ways to restucture such a debt. But since I have a PHD in economics what do I know. YOu dam the city with short sighted view.
I agree with 6:05am, It is not just one thing that you can point to and say this is why Coatesville is like it is today, it is a BUNCH of little things that snowballed into a big mess. And those things have to be tackled one at a time and eliminated. Yes the people in the city will be the ones to make things change or stay like they are. It's not the buildings, not the trees, not the birds, it's the people.
You cannot change the City nor the people, they have to want to change and they cannot without turning to the only true one that can help them. They have hardened hearts and are blind.
One of the difficulties of changing the city is the percentage of renters. The latest statistics I have are that there are over 70% of the residents living in rented houses. Most of the owners live far from the problems of Coatesville. We need to work to get more owner occupied houses, because owners will generally take care of their homes.
The city doesn't want to change this, because they receive more income from rentals - because of the rental tax and additional inspection and code fees they receive from rentals. What they don't realize is that owners generally have more earned income, and that would mean more income for the city because we have the highest income tax rate outside of Philadelphia.
March 22, 2008 12:00 PM - I have been reading this blog for a long time now, and this is one of the most insightful posts I've read to date. Perhaps you should be running for council next!
When I was off work last fall I went to the county website and did a street by street analysis of the amount of owner occupied homes vs. renter occupied homes, from bridge to bridge and oak st. to coates st. the total is over 80% rentals. This is one reason there is so much trash laying around a lot of properties, the tenants don't care and the landlord doesn't either. I asked one landlord why he doesn't fix up the garage at the back of his property and rent it out, it would be extra income for him, he said he is making out so well renting to section 8 tenants that he couldn't care less about the garage. Seems like a poor businessman to me but that must be the attitude a lot of slumlords have as I see a lot of run down garages at the rear of homes. too bad this has to be.
51 % of the section 8 housing in Chester County is in Coatesville. Allegedly in a few of those section 8 rentals the original tenant moves out after an inspection period is over. Then allegedly drugs are moved in and it becomes a stash house.
That is actually an improvement from 1997 when Ernie Campos was President of City Council. At that time drug sellers could stop traffic and openly sell drugs in the street to white kids from the surrounding area. They did not need a stash house. They could carry a supply of product on their person.
there it is the defeatist attitude. You people canblame anything you want but untill you look in the mirror and see the real problem then you are set to fail. As many have said you move in companies first then food service business then retail. drive up the cost of housing for the slum lords and push them out. If the city keeps going for retail stores and homes the city is doomed before it starts.
51 % of the section 8 housing in Chester County is in Coatesville. Allegedly in a few of those section 8 rentals the original tenant moves out after an inspection period is over. Then allegedly drugs are moved in and it becomes a stash house.
That is actually an improvement from 1997 when Ernie Campos was President of City Council. At that time drug sellers could stop traffic and openly sell drugs in the street to white kids from the surrounding area. They did not need a stash house. They could carry a supply of product on their person.
Whether planned or not the slumlords, county and drug dealers work together to make Coatesville a retail and last stop wholesale drug product center.
The “product” comes into Southern Chester County via the ports in Baltimore or along the Delaware. It comes into Northern Chester County via the turnpike from Scranton Airport or the New York area. In both areas the product is stashed in the farm areas until it can be distributed in Coatesville.
The product is then sold to white kids starting out the suburban schools, professionals and management types who have medical insurance access to drug treatment programs and anyone else who is looking for a quick escape.
Yes, there are occasional users and addicts in poor areas of Coatesville who use the “product” but the money that they use to pay starts out in the upper-class suburban areas around Coatesville. There is a trickle down economy from the drug sales that runs constantly the background in Coatesville. It finances everything from hair styling to exotic vacations and makes some people ignore where the money came from
Take way any of the three elements; the slumlords, the county pushing section 8 housing into Coatesville and of course the drug dealers and the “product distribution system” shuts down.
The drug business in Chester County is not small potatoes. Edwin “Jack” Flamer was said to have a $5 M per year street business. That is only one dealer.
Racketeering and drug distribution are impossible without the assistance of elected and appointed corrupt public officials and a few corrupt police and judges. That is one reason that public corruption is the number 2 priority of the FBI.
Revitalizing Coatesville and bringing middle class people into it would eventually shut down the entire drug distribution system in Chester County. There are a lot of very powerful people in this county who do not want that to happen.
Sounds like the last poster knows a lot about drug dealing. Are you an ex-dealer??
OK Folks, there is a city council meeting tonight 3/24/08. @7:30pm.
Come on out and hear the latest proposal for the flats since Walker said "this is what everybody wanted". I'm sure folks will be curious. Bring your comments and complaints too!
Gee, 12:11 pm
LOL you make my argument just like the board be dammed with revitalization we need money now. there are ways to restucture such a debt. But since I have a PHD in economics what do I know. YOu dam the city with short sighted view.
March 21, 2008 12:11 PM
It's not clear that along the way you received an education in spelling and grammar.
Just another faker.
7:27am
That was my thought exactly. Apparently he confused a PhD with a GED (or less).
And who is this "board" he keeps referring to? Is that perhaps the City Council or is there a more covert group "damming" (holy crap, it's spelled "damn" or "damning"!)the revitalization?
I guess "faker" is a good a description as any!
Well there was a very light turnout for tonight's city council meeting, even Mr. Walker was not there. Meeting was over by 8:45! No mention of the flats or anything else that was in the newspaper recently. Things seemed to have gotten quieted down for some reason.
Well it seems the light turnout last night wasn't the only news. Seems Peguin Properties has removed their bid: http://www.dailylocal.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/Daily?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FDLN%2FNews%2FLocal+News&r21.content=%2FDLN%2FNews%2FLocal+News%2FTopStoryList_Story_1788550
I wonder if it had anything to do with Walker showing his hand last week with his comment about (this is the type of offer we have been looking for). Does anyone know prior to coming here what Walker's resume was? Is there anyplace we can find it? Seems this guy really is an amateur when it comes to handling things. Which unfortunately hurts the rest of us because decisions are being made either irrationally or not at all.I know he supposedly went to Harvard however in my job as a manager there are 2 types of candidates 1) book smart (all theory no experience or 2) street smart (don't have the degree per se) but have a lot of experience. Seems we need less theory around here and more action. All we ever seem to do is have a meeting for a meeting. Which can be either looked at as 1) being thorough and making a good decision or 2)Don't know what you're doing and are spuddering. Anyway just my 2 cents on this. My frustration level seems to grow as it becomes ever more obvious that the only efficiency in this town is its inefficiency to get this done.
Don't forget Harry's narcissism
you had it. If you look in Chester where things are happening take some time and see who is running it. He was fired here because things where going to slow and replaced by ............... Walker
So he has a race track built a casino and a soccer stadium on the way. what does Walker have contractors pulling out. good choice block of idiots.
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