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Eliminate the paid firefighters?
At Monday's City Council meeting, council voted against a referendum that would allow residents to decide whether they want to eliminate the city’s paid firefighters.
Some council members said Thursday there were not enough details about the proposal to make an informed decision. Other officials noted that the city needs the paid firefighters, especially after the nationally-recognized arson crisis that plagued the city for 18 months.
City Manager Harry Walker said the city could save $600,000 with the elimination of the paid firefighters.
As a resident of the City of Coatesville, are you in favor of eliminating the paid firefighters?
Some council members said Thursday there were not enough details about the proposal to make an informed decision. Other officials noted that the city needs the paid firefighters, especially after the nationally-recognized arson crisis that plagued the city for 18 months.
City Manager Harry Walker said the city could save $600,000 with the elimination of the paid firefighters.
As a resident of the City of Coatesville, are you in favor of eliminating the paid firefighters?
posted by Danielle Lynch at
2:14 PM
17 Comments:
Is this Walkers last bit of revenge against the people of Coatesville? I think the arsonists would be wholly in favor of eliminating paid firefighters in Coatesville. I don’t want to worry about wakening up in a burning house knowing that the volunteers will take an extra ten minutes to show up. And then there is the increase in fire insurance we would all have to pay. Like any other responsible head of a family I would move out of a Coatesville without paid firefighters.
Let them go. Let the people of Coatesville step-up to a real volunteer fire company. Many all volunteer companies out perform the paid folks in many places not far from here. There are a number of positions in the city that could be held by volunteers as well.
Are you kidding me....an all volunteer fire company? Not sure how well that would work since most would be working during the day and a lot would be at the club drinking at night. Has anyone done a time study on how quickly volunteers respond after an alarm sounds? Might be an eye-opening bit of info.
As long as there are arsonists - we need the firefighters. Hmmm - just because one of the alledged arsonists was a fire man - does not mean they're all bad.
About 2 years ago there was a story in the Daily Local that reported that the poverty level for a family of 4 living in Chester County was $40,000. Does anyone know where this figure came from and if there has been any updates?
The median income for a household in the city was $29,912, and the median income for a family was $36,375. Males had a median income of $31,782 versus $24,774 for females. The per capita income for the city was $14,079. About 18.3% of families and 22.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 28.9% of those under age 18 and 15.9% of those age 65 or over.
Coatesville had 4,360 housing units, of which 90.37% were occupied. Of the occupied housing units, over 45% were owner-occupied.
The city does not need four full time paid fireman, the department can fully function with part time fireman, and its volunteer base. All have the same certifications, bieng full time does not merit any special skills or knowledge as they make it seem.
Two part timers in the day who wait the 2 - 3 minutes for volunteers to arrive at the station and staff the trucks, and all volunteer staff at night. Go ask other departments in the county, it works.
The Volunteers are quite capable.
"All have the same certifications, being full time does not merit any special skills or knowledge as they make it seem".
There is a vast difference between certificate and certification. Don't be misled by those who use the word interchangeably.
Certificate of attendance means just that, you sat in a class- what you took from the class is anybody's guess.
A certification requires classroom work and a written exam one must pass to PROVE YOU LEARNED the subject matter.
That is the gripe the career firefighters and a select number of motivated volunteers have been stating for years. NOT EVERONE IS TRAINED TO THE SAME STANDARD!
Check the fire apparatus to see if Coatesville proudly displays the % of members that have achieved certifications, then check some of the other departments that assist Coatesville who have this posted on their apparatus. May suprise you.
Now go to the PA State Fire Academy website and look at the certifications offered in the state.
Go a step further and go to the station, have both sides present there certifications not certificates and compare apples to apples.
Then have the PT career firefighters inform you where the majority of them work full-time. Ask the OFFICERS where they work full-time. The majority that are not employed full-time in a fire related job may also suprise you.
So experience and certifications do play an important factor in paying for a salary that may seem high.
Having only volunteers will in all likelyhood open the door to higher homeowners fire insurance rates because of increased response times. You may not be aware that ISO requires 240 hours of training per member per year to obtain full credit in the training section, a career member can get that while on duty if directed to do so by the chief of the department.
Volunteers may have a problem because they are trying to pay the bills. Not a fault of theirs but just a fact.
Call your insurance agent and see what a one point increase in the ISO rating will have on your policy. May suprise you.
However if you choose to listen to members that have an ax to grind you will only get their side of the argument. Do your own homework.
And last comment, this argument is nothing new. It has been going on for 25+- years. The reason the City went to a paid driver back then was to get a piece of apparatus to the scene and wait for responder because to much time was being spent waiting for responders to arrive at the station. It is all in City Council Meeting archives as well as the arguments that were occuring even before the current full-timers there now.
Prior to the paid personnel becoming city employees, personnel were employed by one of the fire companies. At no time was there a delay in the response for someone to come and pick up a truck.
"Having all paid will eleminate volunteers, and from what i hear the volunteers have an association that own all of the equiptment, if you get rid of them coatesville will have to pay millions for a paid staff, than buy millions in equiptment!"
Please do further research and ask further questions. Your current conclusion is wrong.
Ask who paid for the majority of the apparatus? Tax payers.
Who ownes a good portion of the tools and equipment yes the Relief Association paid into the purchase, BUT over the years the taxpayers have paid for and own a good portion of the tools and equipment. This is recorded in past city budgets and kept in the archives and city records.
Then ask who provided funding for the relief association to purchase this equipment. The vehicle operators through their insurance payments, so if you drive and carry insurance you own the equipment in a round about way.
"Prior to the paid personnel becoming city employees, personnel were employed by one of the fire companies. At no time was there a delay in the response for someone to come and pick up a truck."
Check City Council records and see why 25 +- years ago they were removed from this equation. It is on record.It saved the City taxpayers a tremoundous amount of money to take them under their control.
Do you think it may be possible to have the Fire Officers, you know those who are responsible for the overall management of the Fire Department, sit down and have a meeting to fix all of this? Isn't that thier job, volunteer or paid dont they still have a responsibiltiy or is the fire department as screwed up as the rest of the City? Where is the Fire Chief in all of this, isn't he supposed to be runnng the show here?
I dont think this public forum is the place to air the dirty laundry of the City Fire Department.
Ok so i am totally against eliminating the paid firefighters.They serve us the community of coatesville who need them.They risk their lives and how dare we not pay them for the service they provide to us.They are dedicated people and they are nice and caring.Walker needs to get put in a mental health unit,he seems more unstable as the days pass.
the paid firefighter are a safty net. for the city
go ahead and trust that the vollies could save ya but i promise that you will see trucks from the VA (paid) and from thorndale(paid driver) long before you see a coatesville truck at your door. and thats if it comes in as a working job. god forbid if you need one of the other vital (but not as exciting ) services the FD offers. thouse glory hound may never show up
The vollies will come and save you. Just look at the fires where people were trapped. Who saved them??
Please tell me why a family member had to wait for an ambualnce to come from Pomery Fire Company to a call that was RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET from the West End Fire Company. I know there is no Ambualnce in the West End, but there is a fireman who I assume has medical training right? The paid driver never came over to help or to render any care. IT WAS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET! Are you going to tell me that the tax payers only get certain services to certain people? Seriously, right across the street, and NO ONE CAME over to render care. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE PAYING FOR. I am sorry and I do not mean to offend anyone but that is just poor!
"Please tell me why a family member had to wait for an ambualnce to come from Pomery Fire Company to a call that was RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET from the West End Fire Company. I know there is no Ambualnce in the West End, but there is a fireman who I assume has medical training right? The paid driver never came over to help or to render any care. IT WAS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET! Are you going to tell me that the tax payers only get certain services to certain people? Seriously, right across the street, and NO ONE CAME over to render care. THIS IS WHAT WE ARE PAYING FOR. I am sorry and I do not mean to offend anyone but that is just poor!"
SO let me get this straight- A call was received by the Chester County dispatch center for a medical call.
Then the dispatcher sent the call over to the fire dispatcher who then dispatched the city fire department and the firefighter did not respond?
OR !!
Did the call only go to the medical dispatcher who in turn ONLY dispatched the medical responders??
That would explaim why the fire department DID NOT RESPOND!
OR
was the fact an outside responding unit was sent into the city because the units were already tied up on another call and the units were out of the station??
ASK WHY VOLUNTEERS DO NOT RESPOND TO EITHER STATION and stand by until units that are busy handling other calls get back into the CITY.
Works both ways and until the city fixes a problem that has been going on for 25+ years things like this will continue to occur.
Get the tape and have city council listen to it during council meeting and have the fire chief (he is responsible for the actions of the career and volunteer members)explain why it occured and why responders were not available at the station.
You deserve answers but you must do some homework to prove your point.
Successful Strategies: Integrating Career Staff in a Volunteer Department
interesting article for those that would like to gain insight from other departments that have made this work.
http://www.iafc.org/displayindustryarticle.cfm?articlenbr=41778
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